House Impeachment Vote
This story is an email to a friend in UK who forwarded a BBC News account of last night’s vote to impeach President Trump.He was curious about what I thought of both the story and the upcoming 11 months until the election.
Story seems accurate. I watched about half an hour on TV.
Both narratives are flawed. But, since they are aimed at around the median IQ, I am quite likely to find them deficient in both fact and logic.
There might well be nothing that will change Democratic Party minds. There might also be no value to changing them. There is simply no possibility of a sudden revelation that would cause the Democratic base to decide it was wrong.
Is there anything that would change Republican minds? I don’t think “boiling the frog” will do it. To me it seems there would have to be a blockbuster development that would dramatically change the narrative from one day to the next.
I don’t know if such a development exists so predicting the next year seems impossible.
Absent such a development, I seriously doubt the President gets removed from office.
November’s outcome will depend on how the politics plays out between now and then. Each side will try to portray itself as the victim of the other.
The process thus far has succeeded in motivating the bases on both sides and has contributed significantly to fund-raising (a major part of the point of the activity).
Republicans have done better in fund-raising than Democrats. This could turn out to be important. It is certainly important to those whose paychecks are sourced from the contributions.
The top of the league tables for the Democratic nomination is not inspiring. It will become less so as they increase attacks on each other during the primaries.
I would say that the odds of a November win for the Democrats increase if a candidate emerges from nowhere in the coming months.
James Walton, December 19, 2019 at 6:10 am said:
i know that your system of choosing leaders doesn’t work like ours, but I think I’m going to have to re-join the Labour Party for a few weeks to try to ensure that they elect the next Village Idiot as their leader. The Tories owe Mr Corbyn a great debt of gratitude for being so inept, unpopular, idiotic, thick, delusional, poisonous, nasty, and plain unelectable. But despite last week’s thrashing, the Corbyn ‘Permanent 1970’s Protest’ wing still has control of the Labour Party right now, so it’s time to double down
Haven Pell, December 19, 2019 at 6:22 am said:
Few Americans will know that British party leaders are chosen by vote of the rank and file party members who need only pay a few pounds for the privilege of voting.
Temple Grassi, December 19, 2019 at 6:29 am said:
I spent most of the day Wed in my car on a family road trip. I listened to the hearings on the radio. It was addicting. First one side then the other. Back ‘n forth it went all day. I was thinking that maybe there would be a fight or some kind of ‘nastiness’ with ‘naughty’ words, but it seemed quite civilized. It reminded me of why people watch NASCAR- to see a wreck!
Haven Pell, December 19, 2019 at 6:32 am said:
Love the NASCAR analogy.
James Walton, December 19, 2019 at 7:00 am said:
The question is, which car got wrecked? Thecoverage here [admittedly from the Right side of life] is prefectly exemplified by this quote:
This is nothing more than a ‘Kangaroo Court’. The jury who will judge President Trump are the voters.
As the 17.4m Leave voters recently took their revenge on a rogue Remain [British] Parliament, so will the Democrats find themselves on the wrong side of voters wrath.
The Democrats know they can’t beat Trump at the ballot box, but as is typical of the Left, engage in mob rule instead.
This will backfire very badly for Pelosi. The Washington Democrats are as insular and insulated from the mood of the country as the Islington based Labour Party recently found themselves.
Haven Pell, December 19, 2019 at 7:16 am said:
That is quite a good example of one of the two competing narratives. Though both versions reassure supporters, neither changes any minds on the other side. Battling publicists.
Carter Lord, December 19, 2019 at 8:21 am said:
Just getting my computer going again after all these months on the road. Coming home to the impeachment madness makes me want to go back out on the road again for another 6 months. I have never seen such a pathetic charade in my life as this latest stupidity from our Democratic countrymen. I am at loss totally as to what they can possibly be thinking. Their idea of what is good for this country is so far from where I am that I can only wish them total and complete failure at every turn until they come back to embracing all the wonderful things this country, and even this president and our electoral college system, offers us and the rest of the world.
There are many great and positive things and influences that come from the Democrats – like health care insistence for everyone in some reasonable way, environmental sensitivity that makes sense, a more level playing field on the income situation. But their screaming bloodthirsty hatred , transparent love of power, insistence that they know how we should all live and their rabid insistence on cramming those worn out ideas down our throats and finally their idiotic socialist mentality are not any of them. They are destroying our country.
I hope they go down in flames in a landslide that is so overwhelming that everyone of these idiots gets voted out of office and we get some people in there who want to work together to solve these important and difficult issues so we can make the USA a better place for EVERYONE, including THEM, and quit wasting our time on this stupid shit they are so rabid about.
Screw the democrats who are in favor of this impeachment stuff, they can kiss my ass.
Chip Oat, December 19, 2019 at 9:22 am said:
How interesting, and ironic, that the Democrats started all this to inspire passionate fundraising, yet the Republicans have been more successful in that regard to-date.
John Austin Murphy, December 19, 2019 at 9:35 am said:
I could not disagree more with the argument that there is a relative balance of misbehavior and mendacity between the president, his supporters, and their foes. He is a seriously evil man, whose constant bad conduct and lying has been enabled by an ill-informed electorate, and craven legislators for whom self-interest is everything.
I recognize that my opinion is viewed as a cliche by many on the other side.
[I am interested in the “score card” for predictions by your correspondents on the Brexit vote.]
Guy Cipriano, December 19, 2019 at 9:40 am said:
I seem to remember that in JFK’s book Profiles In Courage he told the story of the senator who cast the deciding ballot in the Andrew Johnson impeachment trial. There has never been a president removed from office via the impeachment process. President Trump will not be removed either.
Richard Meyer, December 19, 2019 at 9:59 am said:
Haven: I’m curious. Did your friend offer any opinions during the Clinton impeachment?
Peter W Bragdon, December 19, 2019 at 10:18 am said:
Members of the President Buchanan Fan Club are rejoicing because their man is finally out of last place in the Presidential Rating Game.
Haven Pell, December 19, 2019 at 11:11 am said:
We appear to have pretty much the full range of views among these comments. They can speak for themselves.
Ron Bogdasarian, December 19, 2019 at 12:07 pm said:
To me the issue is not Republican v Democrat. They are very used to arguing, debating, fighting, being as different as groups or tribes can be. I can imagine a Republican administration better led by a different personality and behavior than the current
Haven Pell, December 19, 2019 at 4:58 pm said:
The two parties preserve their duopoly to great advantage to themselves. Would it be too much to ask them to serve up top decile candidates for the rest of us to choose from? It won’t happen with today’s system but we didn’t always have today’s system.
Bruce Krochman, December 19, 2019 at 2:22 pm said:
What I find most troubling is my complete disinterest and lack of surprise by all of this. Maybe I have seen too many commercials by Tom Steyer calling for Trump’s impeachment for too long to even care anymore. It is as if I am watching a mediocre performance of the Nutcracker and am not able to get engaged. Maybe it is just me.
Haven Pell, December 19, 2019 at 5:00 pm said:
Alternatively, you might just be the sanest of all.
John Austin Murphy, December 19, 2019 at 4:02 pm said:
I would happily support the candidacy of a principled Republican with a conscience who takes on Individual-1.
GARRARD GLENN, December 21, 2019 at 11:54 am said:
I had dinner the other evening with some card-carrying “progressive” old friends. They reveled at the fact that Trump would soon be impeached. And indeed, so he was.
I didn’t offer up too many defenses of Mr. Trump. I reverted to my usual tactic of deploring Trump’s crass and corrosive behaviors which tend to exacerbate the divisiveness that now abounds in our fair land. This simple and obvious criticism always meets with happy clucking and nodding with like-minded folk. Having chosen superior ground from which to wage battle, I then quietly mentioned what I saw as a potential danger for the future welfare of the Democratic party. I noted that increasing numbers of black and Hispanic working-class voters were now looking favorably upon the one policy of Mr. Trump’s that they care about: an increase of employment. These voters now enjoy record-low unemployment numbers not seen since 1969. Plus, their wages are increasing as a result faster than those of their managers. And then I offered up in soft and dulcet tones a concern: these voters make up a large base of the Democratic party, and without sufficient numbers of their votes the white coastal “elites” that rule the party become vulnerable to being turned out of office in significant numbers. Ever so deftly, I turned identity politics on its head, and offered up a hoisting upon its own petard.
This caused a definite pause in the crowing of my old pals. One looked, for a moment. decidedly ashen. Before they mounted the inevitable counter attack, I opined that an ironic fact may now be emerging: a severe recession prior to the presidential election would likely upend this disturbing electoral shift, thus returning the workers to high levels of unemployment and increasing impoverishment.
The male member of our merry gathering immediately seized upon this ray of hope, saying “Yeah, that would do it. Let’s pray for one.” His fetching wife nodded approval.
And so was embraced a scorched earth policy by my progressive pals: burn down the village in order to save it.
You have to embrace some rather twisted and even masochistic tactics to prevail in certain progressive contests these days. Happily, my old pals were equal to the challenge.